Giving the Rapture Question my best shot
I was asked one night by someone knowing that I lean toward the position that the church will go through the Great Tribulation, what I think is the strongest argument in favor of my position. My first response was "The Bible". Of course that was a tongue in cheek answer, and I told them that I did not come to this belief, based on a single verse, but rather on the combination of the facts, that the simplest descriptions of the end times, as I read them, seem to indicate a post - trib perspective. That coupled with the lack of any strong support for another scenario in scripture, which does not require making unwarranted assumption. That is my opinion, I was thinking about the question while driving home today, and a series of verses came to my mind, that seemed to me, to require a post-trib sequence. Now, I am certain, that those who are determined to, can find another way to interpret these passages, but I believe that it is best to not look for ways to make a passage say what you wish it said, but rather, accept what it says, in the plainest, simplest way, the most literal way to interpret. To violate this, should require a very compelling reason. The verses sets follow:
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Reference |
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Commentary |
| Matt 24:29-31 | 29 But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: *
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Verse 29 establishes that the celestial phenomena occur after the great tribulation.
Note also the tribes of the earth mourn, Jesus coming in clouds, and the presence of the trumpet, angels, and the gathering of the elect, as we will see similar language later. |
| Rev 6:12-14 | 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; * 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. |
This, I believe, is describing the same event, especially when you consider the details about the Sun, the Moon, and the Stars. If so, then the sixth seal in Revelation, occurs after the great tribulation as well. We will be returning to Revelation in a moment, but I wanted to establish that part of the scenario, so we know the time frame in sequence of some other events. |
| 1 Thess 4:16-17 | 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we that are alive, that are left unto the coming of the Lord, shall in no wise precede them that are fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first; |
Here, we have one of the clearest, if not the clearest, passage in scripture concerning the rapture. Notice the sequence:
Lord descends, shout trumpet, voice of angel, dead Christians rise FIRST THEN the living Christian rise to meet them and the Lord in the air |
| 1 Cor 15:52 |
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump : for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. | Another description of the rapture. A trumpet sounds (notice it is the last trump), dead raised, and the living are changed. |
| Rev 6:9-11 | 9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long , O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. |
O.K. Remember the sixth seal? We saw that it was after the tribulation, let us go back one seal to the fifth seal. What do we find? We see the souls of those who had been killed for their testimony. This could be those Christians from all centuries, and I can accept that. However, considering this is during the seal just before the seal which is after the tribulation, I am inclined to believe that these are Christians who are martyred during the tribulation, or at least, those are the ones in view primarily. This, does not mean that there could not have been a rapture previously, but it does show the presence of believers during the tribulation, at least, that is the simple interpretation. Notice please, the white robes in verse 11. |
| Rev 6:12-17 | 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. * 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? |
Some of this we have already read, I put it here again, just to show the continuity of the context. Notice here in verses 15-17, that we are now seeing the wrath of the Lamb. This of course, establishes the wrath as after the tribulation,You may have heard the phrase, "the 7 year tribulation" before. If you are like me, you observe that in the Bible, the trouble (tribulation) is actually only 3 1/2 year, while the first 3/12 years of Daniel's seventieth week is peaceful. So, so far, we can see that there is Daniel's seventieth week, a 7 year period, 3.5 years of peace, and 3.5 years of great tribulation, followed by the celestial phenomena and those on the earth recognizing they are in trouble as Jesus returns, and gathers His elect at the trumpet. Now, although this looks like this gathering of the elect at the trumpet could be the rapture, (that would be the simplest explanation, those who believe that the rapture is before the tribulation, have to assume that this is not the rapture. Did we see any mention of a rapture before the trib in these verses, no, we did not. |
| Rev 7 | 1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. 5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. 6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthali were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. 7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. 8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand. 9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes. |
Now, lest anyone think I am trying to slip anything past here, I have included a larger context, but have emphasized verses which I want to call you attention to. Mainly, I am pointing out, that there appears to be a sequence. Now, it is possible, that John's verbiage is not about the sequence of events, but rather the sequence in which he saw these things in his vision. Again though, there is an obvious correlation between these events and those before, as this is a continuous context, the seals are numbered in sequence, and other clues. I won't belabor the point, you are either open to that, or not.
The white robes are a recurring theme. We saw them in Rev 6:11: And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. Remember that, those were the ones martyred for the Lord, and we were waiting for the rest, who were doing to die, and we saw that that was during the tribulation, as proved by the fifth and sixth seal. Here in Rev 7:13-14 we see it affirmed that these in white robes, came out of the great tribulation. |
| Rev 20:4-6 | 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection . 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection : on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. |
Verse 4, clearly these are the same people, those who were beheaded for Jesus, during the tribulation. We also see, that they will LIVE and reign during the millenium. So, since they have died, but are going to live and reign, they have to be resurrected. Verse five says that this is the first resurrection (as opposed to the rest who will be resurrected after the millenium, at the second resurrection).
These who take place in the first resurrection are blessed, because the will not die the second death. |
If you were sharp, you noted all of the following:
The Tribulation, in which Christians clearly die, Mat 24, Rev 6
Followed by the celestial signs
Followed by the terror of those on earth at Jesus' coming, angels, trumpets, gathering of the elect Mat 24, 1 Thess 4
At Jesus coming, the dead rise first, then the living, and the dead that rise first, are those that died during the tribulation 1 Thess 4, Rev Chapters 6, 7, and 20
The First Resurrection Rev 20, 1 Cor 15, 1Thess 4
Then the Rapture, the living are caught up to be with them. 1 Thess 4, Mat 24, 1 Cor 15,
Conclusion
Now, that was quite a bit to cover, and if you are not capable of storing and processing a lot of detail, as I am not, let me see if I can distill it down to a few sentences
If those who died in the Great Tribulation are later resurrected, and then the rapture follows that resurrection, then necessarily, the rapture is after the Great Tribulation. If the rapture is after the Great Tribulation, then obviously, the church goes through the Great Tribulation. In my mind, this is a powerful argument. Many more arguments for a post tribulation rapture can be made, but that was not the purpose here.
I know some people are of the belief, that the idea of Jesus not rapturing the church before the tribulation, does not square with the character of God, that having to go through the tribulation, is no blessed hope. I feel that it would not be fair, to fail to address that issue as well, so I will in brief form.
The Character of God. Our God never promised us that we would not have problems. In fact, we have this promise:
2 Tim 312 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
That verse should be enough to end the argument about the character of God. Note also the following:
Acts 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
Luke 11:49 Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:
50 That the blood of all the prophets , which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;
51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.
John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
I could go on, there are plenty more like this. Remember also, that tradition holds that each apostle, except for John, was martyred, and he was boiled in oil, yet survived. Jesus predicted Peters crucifixion. The centuries are filled with the blood of Christian martyrs, and Christians die around the world today for their faith. Why would we arrogantly assume, that somehow, we will be exempt from such treatment? To dread the day when we might have to pay the ultimate price for our faith, to serve as those before us did, as our Lord Himself did, is looking through eyes of flesh, not with heavenly perspective. Are we fearful, in the flesh, yes, in the Spirit, no, God is able to make us stand, as He has countless times before us, enabling men women and children to have supernatural boldness in time of need, when if glorifies Him.
Eyes of faith see it this way:
1 Peter 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial among you, which cometh upon you to prove you, as though a strange thing happened unto you:
13 but insomuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings, rejoice; that at the revelation of his glory also ye may rejoice with exceeding joy.
Luke 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you (from their company), and reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
23 Rejoice in that day, and leap (for joy) for behold, your reward is great in heaven; for in the same manner did their fathers unto the prophets.
Jam 1 2 Let it be all joy to you, my brothers, when you undergo tests of every sort; 3 Because you have the knowledge that the testing of your faith gives you the power of going on in hope;
Hope, it comes back to hope. Pre trib rapturists believe that the Blessed Hope, is the coming of the Lord to rapture them before the tribulation.
Titus 2:13
13 Looking for that blessed hope , and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
The Blessed Hope indeed is Jesus at His appearing! Appearing, His Revelation or visible appearance at the end of the tribulation, not some secret or invisible rapture, which is not described anywhere in scripture. Just when all hope should be lost, would be lost, if not for our faith, the faithful, hold on, persevere, knowing and trusting God at His word, that Jesus will indeed come and rescue them, but not from some suffering in some speck of time, but from suffering in eternity, that is our hope, but not hope as in wishful thinking, hope as in confident belief, based on our knowledge that God does not lie, but fulfills His promises,
Therefore, comfort one another with these words.
In Love,
Omegaman
Addendum
* I thought that I would include for your interest, a few more verses on the sun, moon, stars thing, there are even more by the way, but these will serve:
Joel 2:
10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
11 And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Joel 3
15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
These show that the phenomenon of the sun and moon and stars, is connected to the wrath of God, and the Day of the Lord, a good study of it's own.
Addendum #2
December 2008
I was recently asked to explain why I hold to the post-trip rapture theory. I elected not to defend the position but instead, to point the person in the direction where they can discover and conclude for themselves, what the Bible teaches. In suggesting some areas to begin his study, I noticed something that had eluded my attention for 30 years, I thought it belonged here, since I think it is a powerful bit of evidence, and not difficult to understand.
It starts with Acts 3:
17 "Now, brothers, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did your leaders. 18 But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Christ would suffer. 19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, 20 and that he may send the Christ, who has been appointed for you-even Jesus. 21 He must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.
NIV
Nothing ambiguous about that Jesus must stay in Heaven until it is time for the restoration. Now, it can be debated what time of restoration we are discussing, is it the Millenial Reign, or the creation of a New Heaven and a New Earth. What should be obvious to even the casual student of prophecy, we are talking about a time AFTER the great tribulation.
For some, this verse by itself will be enough to demonstrate that Jesus is not coming back before the end of the tribulation. Now, I imagine that the dedicated pre-trib enthusiast, will be thinking that Jesus comes back at the end of the tribulation, but that He will rapture the church from Heaven, calling the church up to Him, and therefore, this verse does not apply as I think.
The Apostle Paul, however, disagrees with you. In 1 Thessalonians, chapter 4 he explains concerning the rapture:
15 According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage each other with these words. NIV
Now I know I need not explain this further, but I will.
If Jesus must remain in heaven until the restoration, and the restoration is after the tribulation, and yet Jesus will come down from heaven at the time of the rapture, we must conclude that the rapture is after the tribulation. I can see no other rational conclusion, can you?